tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36070744.post829593208346988348..comments2023-10-20T10:08:03.133+01:00Comments on SomeBeans: Self-interest and electoral perversionsSomeBeanshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11076372969807940310noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36070744.post-9937804314431920262011-04-17T09:59:04.119+01:002011-04-17T09:59:04.119+01:00LibDems have ministerial positions in proportion t...LibDems have ministerial positions in proportion to the number of seats in parliament, not the popular vote. That means that policy largely originates with Tory ministers.SomeBeanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11076372969807940310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36070744.post-84924386300586018782011-04-17T06:51:14.544+01:002011-04-17T06:51:14.544+01:00The Lib Dems have strength, strength, "in pro...The Lib Dems have strength, strength, "in proportion to the parliamentary seats gained." Not so. Their strength is far in excess of that. The smallest of the main political parties gets to choose the government? They may be under-represented in terms of seats, but they are certainly not under-represented in terms of power.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36070744.post-33186060515323810572011-04-16T11:22:21.851+01:002011-04-16T11:22:21.851+01:00@WomblePie yes, really the key benefit of AV is mu...@WomblePie yes, really the key benefit of AV is much reduced need for tactical voting. Shifting a bit towards proportionality is largely coincidental.<br /><br />I am pretty happy with coalition, I think it has led to rather more inspection of manifestos that would otherwise be the case. Many people seem unhappy that the Liberal Democrats have not implemented all of their manifesto, but it's a big improvement on none of it.<br /><br />I'm toying with the idea that FPTP has done the LibDems a particular disservice in this election. Many people voted LibDem in 2010 and they knew this, and LibDems appeared to get into power so people assumed they had a strength related to their proportion of the vote - but they don't they have it in proportion to the parliamentary seats gained.SomeBeanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11076372969807940310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36070744.post-29642233546894073092011-04-16T10:08:44.061+01:002011-04-16T10:08:44.061+01:00A very clear overview, as always.
I'm torn on...A very clear overview, as always.<br /><br />I'm torn on the whole issue really.<br /><br />I can see that, although "a miserable little compromise", AV is inherently fairer than FPTP. Tactical voting becomes redundant. Candidates are no longer punished for having closely aligned competitors on the ballot paper "splitting the vote".<br /><br />The idea is, of course, to make every vote count. My problem with it is this: Although we elect MPs we're actually, most of us, voting for governments. AV (and PR) are likely to lead to more hung parliaments. Governments will be formed according to the inclination of leader of the third party. We move from many votes not counting to only one vote that really counts.<br /><br />In the past, I'd have probably seen this as acceptable, even beneficial. But, the truth is, because of Clegg and the complete abandonment of much of what he said he stood for I'm seeing this as a problem.<br /><br />Cards on the table, I'm a long-time Labour supporter. My vote will be out of self-interest, I'd be crazy to vote any other way.<br /><br />As I said, I'm torn, I fear it may come down to who of Clegg and Cameron I want to annoy the most.WomblePienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36070744.post-71980514957594859442011-04-15T13:41:15.211+01:002011-04-15T13:41:15.211+01:00@Nico - if the AV vote is lost, that'll be it ...@Nico - if the AV vote is lost, that'll be it for electoral reform for 20 years (my guess based on devolution referenda for Scotland). Would be interesting if House of Lords had more democratic legitimacy than the House of Commons!SomeBeanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11076372969807940310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36070744.post-16710808996413292292011-04-15T12:50:11.597+01:002011-04-15T12:50:11.597+01:00This is fascinating, as a LD/Green sympathiser I h...This is fascinating, as a LD/Green sympathiser I hope AV will go through to give those parties the voice they deserve. Unfortunately being of Gallic nationality I am not allowed to vote here for referenda or the general election. Next step hopefully will be the House of Lords!Nicohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05451083510383812797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36070744.post-59937280572681143602011-04-15T09:05:19.652+01:002011-04-15T09:05:19.652+01:00I don't think so, if we use the pudding choosi...I don't think so, if we use the pudding choosing analogy: (a group obliged to select a single pudding at a restaurant) then I would prefer to go with a preference method, rather than a single X. <br /><br />For me lack of proportionality/FPTP leading to a choice of one of two parties except in exceptional circumstances is the greater threat to democracy.<br /><br />Argument supported as noted above ;-)SomeBeanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11076372969807940310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36070744.post-64329534331902707112011-04-14T20:31:28.944+01:002011-04-14T20:31:28.944+01:00Out of curiosity would you be happier if the syste...Out of curiosity would you be happier if the system were FPTP with MPs only nominally representative of their party - putting their constituents first? For me it's the power of those whips that is the greatest threat to 'representative' democracy - something that won't be changed by switching to AV - but then I would say that ;-)Phil Rusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13040474351783645703noreply@blogger.com